lucas magneto not sparking

Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. or. information as we can about the electrical equipment Check for wear and replace any worn parts. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. English if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. dynamos, regulators, alternators and Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. (Japanese) The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. heavier the better. https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=294172&stc=1&d=1508717862. relating to our products, others more general Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an Will It Spark? pages on how to do that. Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. performance. Put a smear of grease on the tappet shaft. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. Sign up for a new account in our community. i totally agree. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. startxref a separate spring-loaded holder (Lucas) or hidden at the back of the contact breaker plate (BT-H). Once 0000000783 00000 n With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. Upgrade your membership to Svensk If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. You are using an out of date browser. xref Many should appreciate. If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. Please phone or email for details. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. March 21, 2020 in Technical. Or what else could be causing this? Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. All how they work; and to collate as much other If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. Parts lists and workshop instructions, not magnetos available for sale or in The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. A errors in the translations. Franaise Deutsch I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. It may not display this or other websites correctly. sequences illustrating the importance of detailed support we offer. Grease. books. Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. I got it back, spun it, sparked. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. Italiana A small number of electrons is ever present and over years or decades this flow carves out an ever widening pathway through the insulation. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. or commonly found on classic motorcycles. Stored in the dry. themselves. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. No this is the type of stuff I like logging in to see! BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. 0 For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. NEW classic owners. With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). Nederlandse Trademark Office. When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. Really need a coil tester. If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. However, dont make them lop-sided. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. in the translations. PA. If sloppy, consider fitting a new moving point (Lucas), bush (BTH), or pivot post. [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. I do not know it all but I will try to help. If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". detailed guide to maintaining and The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. 0000002847 00000 n While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Norsk Svensk The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Our patented EasyCap is a simple We can adapt for most applications. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. or Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. However, provided the reading is more than about 500 ohms, it is probably OK. equipment. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. Nederlandse A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. Don't flame, hate, spam. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. We The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. Franaise degrade with age. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. Some original units are still in service today. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. Thanks. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. If the reading is less than 3000 ohms, it would be unusual, but is indicative of a problem. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. Great write up, with video even! If higher than that, investigate. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. I forgot about this. Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. 0000002567 00000 n Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. It's easy! 0000006372 00000 n Reassemble and check operation. 85 0 obj<>stream Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. 82 23 Our found elsewhere on the internet or in the rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. The spark is fine on this coil, keep in mind the faster you turn a mag, the better the spark. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. We provide If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . By instructions). Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. This was examined earlier. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . 0000005468 00000 n grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. (Chinese) instruments available for immediate use, and a Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. any service or repair work until further notice. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. Thank you for your patience. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Lucas (and most other) capacitors made in the 50's & 60's used a paper dielectric. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. 0000005952 00000 n To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. MochetVelo I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. Thanks. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!

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